full text of live blog from PCA Multi-Site Conference

The following is the full text from the live-blogging of the PCA Multi-Site Conference hosted by Harbor Presbyterian Church in San Diego. Posted here in its entirety for easier reading / browsing, in chronological order.

• 2:11 PM: djchuang I'll be live-blogging from the PCA Multi-Site Conference at North Coast Presbyterian Church in Encinitas, CA
• 3:54 PM: djchuang on stage now: Russ Kapusinski bringing the devotional today and tomorrow
• 4:02 PM: djchuang Russ: we've got to maintain a Gospel imagination... dance & celebrate what Christ has done for us
• 4:12 PM: djchuang (Doug Swagerty now on stage; he is senior pastor of Harbor Presbyterian Church in San Diego - a multi-congregational multi-site church)
• 4:14 PM: djchuang conference materials are available online for download at harboruptown.org/conference-materials-for-download/

• 4:24 PM: djchuang (round of introductions by everyone; including 3 pastors here from Japan... one guy is live translating via headphones for them)
• 4:35 PM: djchuang DOUG: Why Multi-site Church? Why this conference? * growing interest.. a way to address growth issues..
• 4:38 PM: djchuang 2 things we don't want to do: (1) don't want to push a particular philosophy of ministry (multi-site is a strategy; can work with any model or philosophy; it's a "delivery system")
• 4:39 PM: djchuang (2) don't want to convince you to adopt Harbor's model.. Harbor is tri-perspectivalism & ministry-- normative, situational, existential; Harbor is a unique convergence of these 3 perspectives
• 4:44 PM: djchuang Doug: success would be for you to go away and say that we're not going to do it the Harbor way...
• 4:49 PM: djchuang Doug: What is a multi-site church? (as Harbor defines it) a single church, with multiple worship services, in multiple locations
• 4:52 PM: djchuang Doug: copy from 1 = plagiarism; copy from 2 = research; copy from more than 2 = shared creativity... *grin*
• 4:53 PM: djchuang (Dick Kaufmann now on stage)
• 4:56 PM: djchuang Dick Kaufmann speaks on The Harbor Presbyterian Church story... [side note: nice of conf organizers to provide power strip at every table]
• 4:58 PM: djchuang Dick: tells story of being at Redeemer New York City for 5 years... rather than a 2nd service at Hunter College, why not have a 2nd service on the other side of the Park... (now Redeemer NYC has 3 sites 5 services)
• 5:01 PM: djchuang Dick: ... got a call confirmed with wife to church plant in San Diego... refers to Perimeter (in Atlanta) having done multi-congregational..
• 5:02 PM: djchuang Dick: Harbor is a "vine" (church) with several "peapods" (congregations), each with up to 2 or 3 "peas" (sites)
• 5:02 PM: djchuang Dick: each church planter/ pastor starts a peapod that is connected to the vine
• 5:02 PM: djchuang Dick: the vine (one church) has oversight with one board, one corporation, one membership roll, and centralized accounting functions
• 5:05 PM: djchuang Dick: why multi-"something"? 2 benefits -- (1) grown in having a shared vision; in contrast to mother-daughter churches, where daughter church gets its own session and vision diverges, or rushed into getting elder board ...
• 5:06 PM: djchuang Dick: (2) centralized administration, which frees the church planter to do the work of ministry
• 5:06 PM: djchuang One church: corporation, session, membership roll, employer ID #, bank account, insurance carrier
• 5:07 PM: djchuang Central services: finances, bulletins, leases, insurances, taxes, personnel issues
• 5:08 PM: djchuang invites leaders from Japan to speak about benefits of doing multi-site church in Japan...
• 5:09 PM: djchuang (translated from Japanese) Christ Church started 2nd site 6 yrs ago; 3rd site 18 months ago; total congregation size about 180, considered a "megachurch" in Japan; avg church size in Japan ~ 35
• 5:11 PM: djchuang (1) multi-site in Japan can be led & overseen by an older respected pastor, giving legitimacy.. empowering younger leaders to do ministry; (2) not as many younger talented pastors, or male Christians, this multiplies gifts, uses gifting at multiple sites..
• 5:13 PM: djchuang (3) smaller local churches brings worship closer to home.. Japanese believers have kind of a "minority complex".. to have bigger congregational worship once a month.. all sites gathering together.. very beneficial, see that they belong to something larger..
• 5:15 PM: djchuang Doug: (multi-site) maximize resources - people, finances, and time.. gets one more site from church planter.. big church ministries with small church feel
• 5:16 PM: djchuang Doug: people get closer to the leaders.. more opportunities for ministry involvement..
• 5:18 PM: djchuang greater sense of community and fellowship.. impact neighborhoods... Provide better transition when primary preacher retires or ramps down... Enables small churches to thrive at what they do best
• 5:20 PM: djchuang (previous points were benefits from multi-site model of Redeemer NYC)... we (harbor) celebrate the small church.. "God loves the small church, because there are so many of them..."
• 5:21 PM: djchuang benefits from multi-congregational model -- 1. Team approach to ministry – You are not out there on your own; 2. On-going training, coaching, grace renewal, and team building
• 5:24 PM: djchuang 3. Gifts of different pastors strengthen the team; 4. Dream big, do small... to preach, counsel, love people.. the pastor of a big church doesn't get to do that.. yet also part of something bigger, a vision for San Diego and Tiajuana..
• 5:25 PM: djchuang Dick: multi-site has also been multi-cultural.. when Harbor comes together, we're extremely diverse..
• 5:27 PM: djchuang benefits of multi-cultural -- 1. Richness of worship experience: this is a taste of heaven.. the best is yet to come.. what's the glue that holds this group together? homeless and millionaires.. different ethnicities.. how do you explain it? there's only 1 way.. it's Jesus, that brings us together..
• 5:27 PM: djchuang 2. Appreciation of different people and cultures; 3. Effective sharing of resources; 4. Demonstration of the power of the gospel
• 5:28 PM: djchuang [time for a snack break.... next session at 2:45pm, will look at different models]
• 5:54 PM: djchuang session begins with Doug Swagerty, speaks to Models of Multi-Site Ministry, chart at harboruptown.org/mediafiles/multisitemodelsdoc.doc
• 5:55 PM: djchuang Doug wants to be descriptive, not prescriptive, as we look at multi-site models...
• 5:56 PM: djchuang * Video-Venue Model, e.g. North Coast Church, Vista; Live Worship, Sermon by Videocast; Benefits: multiple worship styles, reduces need for additional preachers; Challenges: technological costs & expertise, importance of local infrastructure
• 6:03 PM: djchuang Doug shares personal stories of how North Coast had ministered to him... when they started Video Cafe, with a top quality experience [not a punishment, as Larry Osborne would say]
• 6:04 PM: djchuang people liked the informality and smallness of video venue.. they actually ran a reverse recruiting to get people back to the live service.. North Coast is at an industrial complex.. now, 23 services every weekend at 5 on campus + 3 off campus venues
• 6:06 PM: djchuang Doug quotes Larry as saying that early market research showed that people didn't want minivans, microwaves, or fax machines.. sometimes people don't know what they want until they've experienced it...
• 6:07 PM: djchuang Doug: 70% of attenders at North Coast never see a live speaker.. only see teaching on video..
• 6:09 PM: djchuang [side note, overheard: which is stronger, 10 churches of 150 or 1 church of 1500? the multi-site concept of smaller church is more of Harbor's strategy...]
• 6:12 PM: djchuang Regional Campus Model (e.g. Redeemer NYC): Distinct sites served by same preacher; benefits: incarnational and contextual, different styles of worship; challenges: if only one pastor, limited to 2-4 sites, importance of local infrastructure
• 6:13 PM: djchuang re: incarnational & contextual.. the external face of a site, how it's perceived by the community, may be completely different, even though geographically only a mile apart..
• 6:17 PM: djchuang re: "staff forward or staff backward": forward = if you staff someone at new multi-site, or if you staff someone at old site.. ideally both directions; determining factor is role of church planter, i.e. some are better gatherer than pastoral care-giver..
• 6:18 PM: djchuang re: local infrastructure, one issue you'd have to figure out: one central children's director that oversees each site's ministry, or an autonomous children's ministry director at each site...
• 6:20 PM: djchuang Extended Multi-Site Model (e.g. Seacoast)-- local churches use pre-recorded sermons ("franchises"); benefits: cost-effective, congregations hear great communicators; challenges: difficult to contextualize preaching, local site infrastructure committed to ministering in non-traditional way
• 6:24 PM: djchuang Multi-Congregational Model (e.g. Perimeter, Atlanta): group of distinct congregations under one governing board with separate preachers; benefits: ability to leverage resources for greater impact, team approach, ongoing mentoring & coaching; challenges: maintaining commitment to vision and values, natural pull toward particularization & self-governance
• 6:27 PM: djchuang Doug: at Harbor, as 1 church, we want our congregations to voluntary stay associated; and when they want to particularize, we celebrate that..
• 6:29 PM: djchuang Multi-Site & Multi-Congregational Model, e.g. Harbor Pres San Diego:: multiple congregations that are each multi-site; Benefits: ability to leverage resources for greater impact, team approach; ongoing mentoring & coaching, more than one site out of each church planter; Challenges: need for movement leaders, developing and maintaining trust among leaders, natural pull toward particularization & self-governance
• 6:32 PM: djchuang (typically) when people get a call to psatoral ministry.. no one ever says they want to be an administrator, or to figure out tax laws for non-profits...
• 6:33 PM: djchuang Doug, speaking of Harbor: central services allows church planters to focus on the main thing (of pastoring, ministering)
• 6:40 PM: djchuang re: functional trust.. trust each other's roles.. won't micro-manage.. trust church planter to make tactical decisions..
• 6:42 PM: djchuang (now, opening a time of about 15 minutes for Q&A...)
• 6:44 PM: djchuang Question re: how to relate to church planter strategy.. A: Doug functions more as a movement strategist, while Dick functions more as a coach for church planter.. Dick: assessment is important
• 6:45 PM: djchuang church planter draws up plan.. as they try things, we can evaluate.. we can look at launch indicators.. generally, we trust our church planters to make wise decisions, and as we coach them, they'll come with questions and we help draw them out..
• 6:47 PM: djchuang Q: it's gotta be rare for the two of you start the church and movement together.. how do you find (the next) Doug & Dick combo? A: Dick- you have to be sensitive to ministry chapters.. refers to David Fairchild of Acts 29, who said that it was in-thing to have a thriving church, in a city, leading a movement.. how do you get there? you have to go through chapters... it really helps for a younger guy to find an older guy
• 6:49 PM: djchuang "death of a vision".. Dick confesses, I wasn't ready.. don't rush it.. but don't lose the vision.. see what role you can play in it now.. we could not do it without David.. perhaps there's someone in your context, who needs you..
• 6:52 PM: djchuang Doug draws analogy of his time at Harbor now is like Dick's 5 year chapter at Redeemer, and how Doug first came to Harbor.. and mentions how Doug's own transition that's happening right now is being developed re: movement leadership & perform other functions...
• 6:54 PM: djchuang Question re: regional model vs. multi-congregation vs. multi-site, how to discern which model fits? A: Doug, one factor is giftedness of the preacher.. if it's pulpit-driven, it'd be tough to do multi-site where you bring someone else in.. then I'd suggest multi-site..
• 6:56 PM: djchuang Doug: ... if a church is more driven by external face, community cause, organic nature of small groups, and not a pulpit-driven church, then you could bring someone else, then multi-congregational model can have more likelihood of success..
• 6:59 PM: djchuang Q: sounds like you could decide on a model based on weaknesses too; could you speak to how weaknesses could factor in choosing a model... A: Dick- hmm.. looking at weaknesses... the vision thing can be learned.. you need to be sensitive there.. if you are a priestly person, good interpersonally, can bring together people who have those gifts, you can do it.. if you have a shared vision & values.. I guess I want to say you don't have to have a super-star in every situation.. Gospel values, Gospel vision, and good things can happen..
• 7:00 PM: djchuang Doug: in a multi-congregation model, you do need to know how to lead leaders.. or have someone who can lead leaders..
• 7:02 PM: djchuang (next up is 4 breakout sessions... each breakout leader introducing their topic...)
• 7:25 PM: djchuang (I'm sitting in breakout w/ Doug Swagerty on topic of Central Services)
• 7:28 PM: djchuang Doug: what we do centrally to free up church planter... one legal and ecclesiastical entity.. (see outline at doc site).. giving can be designated to a site, but one bank account...
• 7:30 PM: djchuang Q: how do you handle shepherding and pastoral care? A: (re: Harbor) our session functions in a unique way, only meets 5 times a year.. membership is ~ 300.. est. ~1500-2000 weekly attendance..
• 7:31 PM: djchuang the session's role is to meet legal and ecclesiastic requirements, guard theology, vision, values of the movement..
• 7:32 PM: djchuang at Harbor, regarding strategy and tactics, the session leaves that to the congregations and sites.. i.e. not approving programs, curriculum, hires of staff; we talk about it and offer advice, but church planter & his leadership team makes the call (decision)
• 7:33 PM: djchuang Harbor.. we are committed to small group ministries.. and that's how people are cared for.. 75-80% of issues can usu be met by good strong small group program..
• 7:34 PM: djchuang 80% could be handled at small group level, 15% handled by site pastor and ldrship.. then 5% would filter up to the session.. very few get to the last level..
• 7:38 PM: djchuang re: officer selection & training, to be put on session, issues of character and competency would be handled at church planter / site level.. Doug's role is final stage of confession, BCO, what it means to be PCA.. so, church planter doesn't have to handle that part of it..
• 7:40 PM: djchuang Q: what about a site feeling under-represented? A: see point 1c (in outline).. we don't have quotas.. b/c you'd (risk) having unqualified people in session.. at session meeting, take site hat off, put movement hat on.. analogy: more like Senate rather than House..
• 7:43 PM: djchuang Doug speaks to Presbyterian particulars re: session, assistant pastors, congregational vote, etc.
• 7:45 PM: djchuang [ed note: I'm not Presbyterian, so I'm quite lost with all the Presbyterian speak]
• 7:48 PM: djchuang Q: membership interviews? A: church planter get ruling elders involved in that.. membership classes are de-centralized
• 7:51 PM: djchuang Q: how does each site handles petty cash? A: we don't deal with cash at all, no one has petty cash.. people submit expense reports (to central)..
• 7:55 PM: djchuang Q: how sites support movement? Harbor takes 10% of general offering into church planting fund, out of which we plant more sites.. so, ch.planters are raising outside support..
• 7:58 PM: djchuang (at Harbor) each site has 5% of its expense budget that goes to central services.. value-driven thing, so they're getting their money's worth.. [ed.note: I'm not good with financial matters either, so the money talk is losing me too]
• 7:59 PM: djchuang RT @jwhays: Paul Kim breakout QA - awesome story about Carmel Valley/Carlsbad multisite. pic
• 8:05 PM: djchuang Q: what does a ch.planter do if he's out of step with Harbor's vision & values? A: he'd bring it to session.. and have a conversation, that'd be a forum.. it's being committed Gospel-centered.. church for the city.. small groups.. fairly basic, top level..
• 8:09 PM: djchuang Doug: each site submits a budget, and it feeds into one big budget.. session oversees..
• 8:11 PM: djchuang Doug: (typically PCA have 3 year sliding scale for ch.plant funding).. Harbor can stretch that to 4-5 years, and sometimes extend that.. genius of multi-site.. [more flexibility]
• 8:14 PM: djchuang Doug: each site has to present a balanced budget, that's part of the site's strategy and tactics, and site may need to raise support from outside.. can be innovative and creative.. we can help w/ cash flow.. always want to have a plan in place, a plan that makes sense, hold 'em to some benchmarks..
• 8:17 PM: djchuang Q: setting salaries? A: 2 issues -- ch. planter and staff.. staff salary determined by ch.planter, but session does modulate that (so staff at diff locations aren't disproportionate).. there's not a union scale.. issue w ch.planter salary trickier, some of that driven by housing costs.. we believe in contextualized incarnational ministry, so wouldn't want pastor living 5 miles out from urban context, for example..
• 8:21 PM: djchuang (Harbor) central services staff can live where ever regionally, but church planter has to live in the community/ neighborhood, to be incarnational, to get traction..
• 8:24 PM: djchuang Doug re: Harbor, we put the burden of proof on why NOT to do something centrally.. a low burden of proof.. bc you can leverage more resources at central
• 8:27 PM: djchuang re: sermon schedule - Harbor has a master sermon schedule that pastors preach off of.. first quarter a Gospel study, summer a Epistle, in Fall a OT study.. about 45 weeks scheduled like that.. and 2-3 weeks between series would be site-specific
• 8:29 PM: djchuang re: how bulletins.. it's done electronically.. content is communicated/ transmitted to central.. due on Thursday, then office becomes like a print shop.. plus a booklet maker w/ stapler.. [ed.note: this is real nuts & bolts]
• 8:31 PM: djchuang [it's now dinner time until 7:00pm]
• 10:12 PM: djchuang (evening session starting up, Dick Kaufmann on stage)
• 10:16 PM: djchuang Dick: in March 2000, launched downtown site.. then Summer 2003, started talk about another site.. had a bunch of young people coming downtown, who didn't really like church.. but stayed b/c the only glue was a small group.. thought about next location in North Park, 3 miles from downtown, an area gentrified..
• 10:18 PM: djchuang Dick: 1st thing was to bring downtown leaders on board.. downtown attendance had swelled to 120.. and when we said we needed to launch another site, they were on board.. and that's the way we were, we keep giving people away, and God (seems to) brings more
• 10:20 PM: djchuang Dick: (telling about story of how Harbor became multi-site) next, started meeting with launch team.. vision for diverse population.. wanted to reflect ethnic diversity of North Park, but we had none of that diversity on launch team.. 1 clear lessons: you're going to end up with what you start with.. e.g. the diversity you want in your church, you need to have in your launch team, even non-Christians..
• 10:22 PM: djchuang Dick: when we started, we were reaching who we were (e.g. 20-somethings).. went thru re-visioning of target group.. 1st, we wanted to equip launch team to be Gospel pace-setters = preach the Gospel + love neighbors + pray for them.
• 10:24 PM: djchuang prayed for open doors of opportunities to love our neighbors.. nobody had the gift of evangelism, but all of 'em started loving their neighbors.. radical things started to happen..
• 10:27 PM: djchuang while working on "position paper" on posture towards homosexuality, and reading it together with launch team.. we substituted homosexual with "the sin we're prone to".. when we finished reading, we saw homosexuality in a whole different way.. it was no different than sin we're prone to.. Question became: what kind of church do we need to be to reach our friends and neighbors who don't know Jesus?
• 10:31 PM: djchuang started hosting prayer meetings and vision parties.. Question: what could you invite your non-Christian friends & neighbors to? one thing was, wine & cheese tasting night at art gallery.. that kind of outreach event shaped us..
• 10:32 PM: djchuang re: selecting location, picked the 1 on the border of North Park, and renamed location to Uptown.. and that brought us into center of homosexual community..
• 10:34 PM: djchuang one example of how Harbor Uptown ministered to that community was being lead fundraiser at a HIV/AIDS event.. since launching 4 years ago, it has birthed 2 more congregations..
• 10:36 PM: djchuang Bob Klein on stage now, speaking about La Jolla-UTC and Mira Mesa sites...
• 10:39 PM: djchuang needed someone who knows the congregation, has the gifts and skills to be site director.. sees this as a pivotal piece of strategy..
• 10:42 PM: djchuang in, through, and with our launch team.. we didn't quite create the culture of evangelism when we launched, and that's hindered.. wish we had done that earlier.. * see doc Harbor Mira Mesa Strategy, Bob Klein and Harbor Mira Mesa One-Year Plan, Bob Klein
• 10:42 PM: djchuang as pastors, esp ch.planters, we might see ourselves as commanders.. but people in congregation see us as captains of the Love Boat..
• 10:44 PM: djchuang food events were a great way to share our vision for a community that wants to follow God and bless the city..
• 10:46 PM: djchuang (Paul Kim now on stage).. sharing about multi-site case study, 2nd site.. #1 Carmel Valley, #2 Carlsbad.. 2 sites have same demographics -- young families with kids
• 10:47 PM: djchuang in 2006, at Carmel Valley, went to 2 services.. 1 for young families, 1 for college students.. ~ 300 total attendance, incl 75 kids.. brought on board college pastor and family site pastor.. by 2007, brought on music director
• 10:49 PM: djchuang by Fall 2007, started Carlsbad site.. both suburban context.. very wealthy.. $150-175K avg income.. target: young families.. why Carlsbad? if we have 2 services, if there's lots of college students coming, why not another college service? 1 reason was financial viability..
• 10:49 PM: djchuang ... we had 10-12 young families who were coming to Carmel Valley, but lived in Carlsbad, and were commuting to church.. thought about staffing forward and backward..
• 10:51 PM: djchuang 1st consideration: wanted to launch Carlsbad site so that it would not weaken present site at Carmel Valley, and to take those 10-12 families to launch Carlsbad.. 2nd step: to talk to those families.. and they said yes..
• 10:53 PM: djchuang re: why that area? we had people living there, but also (what Paul called) "the 20 minute rule", Carlsbad to Carmel Valley was 20-22 minutes drive.. people seemed to think a longer drive over 20 minutes was a long drive..
• 10:55 PM: djchuang Carmel Valley now 6 yrs old, Carlsbad 1.5 yrs old.. Paul's analysis on this multi-site: 1. being missional, 2. financial strength, 3. re: staff dynamic -> have 7 on staff = 4 ordained minister + 3 seminarians
• 10:57 PM: djchuang 1 of my challenges: how to do a multi-site when you have a 6 yr old site and a 1.5 yr old site? how to develop unity since.. each at different stage.. different needs..
• 11:00 PM: djchuang Paul Kim: what we're currently doing... having staff from each site meeting on same day, with overlap for accountability and relationship building.. also, adjusting my role & expectations..
• 11:04 PM: djchuang Paul: thinking thru different roles in coaching/ equipping vs. gathering.. Carmel Valley continues to have 2 services, Carlsbad has 1 service... Paul drives to Carlsbad, preach at 9:15 srv; then drive to Carmel Valley and preach 10:45 and 1:15pm services..
• 11:05 PM: djchuang (now all 3 pastors on stage, for Q&A time)
• 11:07 PM: djchuang Q: what are issues related to sites sharing a pastor?
• 11:08 PM: djchuang Bob: I think (our people) recognize that we are multi-site, and it's a value they share with us, and they're glad to be a part of it..
• 11:10 PM: djchuang Paul: I'm able to greet newcomers, and connect with core leaders.. it's part of missional component.. I have about 5 minutes before I'm on to preach when I get to Carmel Valley, but since I live there, and get to hang out there after service, people are okay (there).. I speak to the mission and vision, explain that..
• 11:13 PM: djchuang Dick: after Uptown and Downtown, there's Q&A class with the preacher.. virtually nobody comes to Uptown Q&A b/c they want to develop community among themselves; Downtown depends on the topic, whether they come to Q&A.. community is happening, we've got welcoming people.. I think it's a group of mature believers who've kept up this ministry of reaching out..
• 11:13 PM: djchuang Q: how do you measure success at your sites?
• 11:15 PM: djchuang Bob: attendance or dollars, not so much.. I've gotten good to find encouragement elsewhere *grin* Jesus loves me, and I'm okay.. I continue to have to come back to that.. church health & able to help people grow in their understanding of grace.. opportunity to live it.. all of us have goals.. to do it well.. and leave results to God..
• 11:16 PM: djchuang Paul: I couldn't have said it better.. I catch myself all the time.. I get drained, thinking about numbers and budget.. wanting to be faithful, missional, pleasing to God..
• 11:17 PM: djchuang Dick: we do look at nickels and noses, but I pray before every service.. these people are not my righteousness.. the sermon isn't my righteousness.. yeah, we want to see church grow and thrive, but I take seriously that.. Paul never evaluated churches he wrote to based on budget, missionaries sent, signs, or types of facilities or ministries, etc.
• 11:18 PM: djchuang ... He repeatedly used faith, hope, and love.. I think that's very significant.. another thing, there's so much unity in Acts was b/c of their prayer meetings.. what happened there was sharing grace renewal stories.. how the Lord has shown up and changed their lives.. at staff meetings, we start with grace renewal stories..
• 11:19 PM: djchuang Dick: for me, success is being able to celebrate what Jesus is doing, in the lives of people, and really rejoicing in that..
• 11:19 PM: djchuang Q: Is there a minimum number that you wouldn't start a 2nd site? How do numbers factor into timing for starting new site?
• 11:20 PM: djchuang Dick: we were maybe 120 when Bob started La Jolla.. then dropped under 100 for a while, then grew back up.. then went to 2nd site.. you do not want to start 2nd site, if it'll put your 1st site under critical mass..
• 11:21 PM: djchuang if we have people to launch, and won't jeopardize critical mass, then we'll go ahead with a 2nd site.. you do have to be wise..
• 11:22 PM: djchuang Bob: that's the ideal to shoot for, and then here's what we did... we send people, like 25-30.. where we knew we needed to go.. new people coming and going all the time at UTC.. and grateful that God keeps bringing people..
• 11:23 PM: djchuang Paul: est 25-30 people minimum to launch, even though we knew about 200.. thinking if we can get a consistent core, then we can move forward..
• 11:24 PM: djchuang (banter... closing this session, and the day.. Dick closes in prayer) [things start tomorrow at 9:00am Pacific]
• 12:56 PM: djchuang [joining DAY 2 morning session, already in progress]
• 12:57 PM: djchuang Doug Swagerty presenting about: "To Launch or Not to Launch" [ed.note: that is the question!]
• 1:01 PM: djchuang (Doug had already covered 3 of 6 questions to consider before launching next multi-site campus) #4 = are our key staff in place or at least around?
• 1:02 PM: djchuang [ed.note: lots of laptops, outlets, wifi, and note-takers; I'm going to try to grab notes from 1st 3 questions and post later]
• 1:03 PM: djchuang 5 areas that people experience at a church: preaching, music, child care, fellowship, and facilities
• 1:05 PM: djchuang when launching next site, keep the first 3 areas consistent (i.e. preaching, music quality, child care), don't mess with it.. music can be tweaked but quality of excellence has to stay same; changes re: fellowship & facilities can be preached/ teached thru via vision
• 1:06 PM: djchuang (in other words) much more effective to launch next multi-site, and gather core team to leave existing site to new site, when there is a similar worship experience
• 1:08 PM: djchuang #5 = Have we effectively communicate our vision? 3 groups to communicate to: core group leaders, presbytery, congregation.. each require different approach
• 1:11 PM: djchuang for example, core group leaders need big picture and details; presbytery need analogy with existing models, i.e. daughter church, worship services at multiple times becoming multiple locations.. don't overwhelm congregation with strategic and system details...
• 1:12 PM: djchuang #6 = As a Pastor, am I ready, able and willing to make any necessary changes in my ministry style?
• 1:12 PM: djchuang consider, do you have the gifts and passion to make necessary changes to lead a multi-site church; don't process this question as right or wrong, process in terms of gifting and calling..
• 1:14 PM: djchuang re-thinking about small churches; it's not necessarily dysfunctional or problem-laden, a small church may very have a vital ministry and impact in a community, and the pastor may be gifted and called to do ministry effectively in that church size.. celebrate the small church
• 1:15 PM: djchuang Consider, 10 churches of 150 vs. 1 church of 1500? Harbor is convinced for themselves that 10 churches of 150 is more effective for them.. very proactive and concerned to be more broad than to be large
• 1:17 PM: djchuang (time for Q&A)... if your vision & values is bringing together different types of groups/ ethnicities, goiong multi-site would segregate, that'd be a disconnect between values and strategy.. if you have regional church values, maybe to make impact in community.. but in order to make that impact, and you'd need a church of 300-400 to pull that off, then multi-site of smaller gatherings may not work..
• 1:20 PM: djchuang ... typically, a regional church (aka satellite, affiliate) goes b/c of strong pulpit ministry..
• 1:21 PM: djchuang (question was, how about a multi-site model of a megachurch w strong evangelism being a funnel to smaller regional sites for more equipping and discipling? practically, this has some challenges..)
• 1:24 PM: djchuang re: a church that moves towards particularizing (that's Presbyterian speak for becoming autonomous and independent, but still Presbyterian).. look for a way to celebrate that, not lock churches into some kind of structure..
• 1:26 PM: djchuang Harbor does say at the beginning, they can leave any time they want.. (of course) not leave any time, but we want you to feel, when you're ready, we're going to celebrate that..
• 1:27 PM: djchuang Q: have we had a situation where you launched something that didn't work, what do you do next? A: we've had some sites that do run into difficulties.. don't want to paint picture that we've figure it all out.. we haven't had a situation where we've had to totally regroup..
• 1:27 PM: djchuang we have had situations where we've had to extend financial support longer.. or to support the church planter with more mentoring and coaching..
• 1:28 PM: djchuang one congregation re-energize and re-focus, and one thing they did was not to have 2 different preachers.. they brought initial preacher to 2nd site, and that solved a lot of the issues..
• 1:29 PM: djchuang hard to get to the root of why something didn't work.. and then come up with solutions that will work next time.. but do have those conversations to get at reality of the situation.. get at expectations.. may need to clarify or re-shape vision for people..
• 1:34 PM: djchuang Harbor's downtown site doesn't exceed 150 in attendance.. when we reach that, we'd launch another site.. typically attendance fluctuates between 80 to 150.. no magic to these numbers.. more about who you have leaders in the mix.. need to have a leadership base to launch next site.. Harbor calls them "Gospel pace-setters"
• 1:35 PM: djchuang (Doug wants to) steer you away from formulas, and towards the questions you need to ask, to find the solutions that work for you and your context..
• 1:36 PM: djchuang [time for a 15 minute break]
• 1:44 PM: djchuang (prev session 1st 3 questions)
  #1 - Does multi-site ministry fit with our vision and values?
• 1:44 PM: djchuang #2 - What multi-site model will best fit our context and gifts? What would it look like in 10 years?
  #3 - Is our leadership united and enthusiastic?
• 2:01 PM: djchuang (I'm sitting in on breakout session w Dick Kaufmann, on topic of Movement Leader)
• 2:05 PM: djchuang 3 parts of a church planting movement: Prophetic (theological vision), Kingly (contextualization & model), Priestly (leadership team) ; based on Tri-perspectivalism by John Frame
• 2:07 PM: djchuang refers to Acts 1:8 being a movement going through different stages, i.e. Judea, Samaria, then ends of the earth.. thru rest of book of Acts... sometimes reluctantly..
• 2:08 PM: djchuang Harbor's ministry map tries to follow that progression.. and it takes time.. our Jerusalem = San Diego county; Judea = nearby + similar culture, Orange County & LA; Samaria = near + different, is Tiajuana; end of earth would be other cities we might have impact with...
• 2:11 PM: djchuang ... as the movement grows, and its number of sites.. how do people experience it as new sites are launch... for people attending, their site is their church: my preacher, my fellowship.. and what they like is they're part of a bigger movement too..
• 2:12 PM: djchuang Dick: 1 thing happened is people refer others to another site based on their proximity to a site location.. [don't have to necessarily bring their friends to the same church they attend]
• 2:13 PM: djchuang Q: vision seems to be staff driven.. ultimately, vision & values has to be sustained by lay leaders.. what are difficulties to transition vision/values held by lay leaders? what if there are more lay leaders than staff?
• 2:14 PM: djchuang Dick answers: when we recruit church planters, we use Drucker's 3 questions -- can they do the job? will they do the job? do they fit?
• 2:15 PM: djchuang those 3 questions cover these areas, i.e. gifts and competency; character; compatibility
• 2:16 PM: djchuang question of compatibility comes in with vision & values.. do they hold to our distinctives, priorities, the kind of church we want to be.. at Harbor, relationship to God's Word, we want to be Gospel-centered, read the Bible from cover to cover, as story of Jesus' suffering and glory.. in relationship to world, we want to be missional for the city, for the context we're in..
• 2:17 PM: djchuang re missional: God's story of pursuing the nation; in relationship to faith community, a grace renewal church.. to read the Bible as a grace renewal document, driving them back to the Gospel.. to Christ..
• 2:17 PM: djchuang Harbor asks ch.planter to take those Gospel values and put them in their own words.. that's how you own it, communicate it..
• 2:18 PM: djchuang ... live out those values.. sometimes more caught than taught.. 1 place to teach it is your new members class..
• 2:20 PM: djchuang aha moment for people: "now I see why they're different".. here's our commitment.. here's what we've resolved to be.. as people heard what kind of church we're trying to be.. light comes on for people.. resolving to talk like the people in our context.. people had already caught it, but didn't know what was behind it... key is to get leaders on board, to set the pace..
• 2:21 PM: djchuang Question re: composition of a launch team... Dick: there's lots of different ways to do it.. you really have to experiment..
• 2:22 PM: djchuang here are things I'd want to process with people.. each of our guys have done it in unique ways, and we learn from each other.. last 2 launches (Mid-city, Ocean Beach) taught us a lot..
• 2:24 PM: djchuang at Mid-City.. tried to get diversity.. brought people / leaders on with homework of asset mapping, i.e. take a square mile and learn everything you can thru a series of questions.. find out what God is already doing there.. on launch team was diversity of people, including non-Christians, and they were on launch team b/c they had same vision for city.. would love to see a great city..
• 2:25 PM: djchuang (Steven at Mid-City).. tweaked the questions Harbor uses.. have non-Christians share their spiritual journey.. even though I'm not a Chrsitian, I'd love to see this church.. and be a part of making the city what you dream of it to be..
• 2:26 PM: djchuang e.g. Where in this past week did you see something good happen in the city? How were you this past week able to love your neighbor? so he casted the net wide and made it inclusive, in that sense..
• 2:27 PM: djchuang another thing Steven did, as they moved towards public worship.. made a transition before going to public worship.. came up with house church setting.. had various elements of worship.. had a fireside chat, with emphasis on values.. and people began invite people to this, and it was growing.. already had formed ministry teams..
• 2:29 PM: djchuang Jim at Ocean Beach.. also did asset mapping.. we did many similar elements (as Mid-City).. we met Sunday afternoons.. our people had worshipped at other sites.. had our meal together, and during that time, we wanted to build community.. initially, our people didn't know each other.. they'd talk thru list of questions..
• 2:30 PM: djchuang let's hear your grace renewal stories, became-> how have you been loving your neighbor? or, let's hear your life story, with high level of vulnerability.. started with leaders, and that set a tone.. and our brokenness brings us to the cross, and freedom to share our struggles..
• 2:32 PM: djchuang re: question on, do you launch with 20 or 100? Dick comments: his concern was.. that he could not do a small start and then try to make that work, while he's got something going already (at original site).. he was spread too thin.. but if he planted with 100, and had 190 at original site.. the 100 won't experience what it'd be to launch as Gospel pace-setters..
• 2:35 PM: djchuang one ch.planter's thought: I'll never send out more than 75 at a time.. with 200, they weren't equipped.. to be Gospel pace-setters: to be renewed by grace, to love neighbors, to praying it forward.. feedback that affirmed (the importance of launching phase).. people said it was the most spiritually growing time they'd ever experienced.. this became best way of equipping, and wouldn't want to miss that..
• 2:39 PM: djchuang Dick on basic strategy.. what's been helpful.. here's your vision & values.. and purpose statement was: to transform downtown San Diego.. so, how are we going to do that, at a specific site? a lot of people come up with a bunch of ministries.. but what you'd want is describe the steps of what needs to happen, i.e. connect, develop, and release.. invite, welcome, engage, commit..
• 2:40 PM: djchuang re: in a growing church-- when a local visitor come.. you should get 40% of them to come back.. if you're functioning well, then 75% of that 40% should stay.. (learning here was) not to do more evangelism, we needed to evaluate what was happening (down the line)... so issue was assimilation..
• 2:43 PM: djchuang (another example) Redeemer NYC stayed in connecting phase for its 1st 5 years.. so, they had to work on developing people.. then releasing..
• 2:45 PM: djchuang (anecdote) one pastor attended his church as a visitor... noticed that one thing visitors do is show up early.. so when he came 10 mins early, noticed there were no signs up, no people there.. he encouraged people to show up 15 minutes early.. and that was a total change (for the visitors' experience).. translating vision to action, think about strategy, then look at each step of process..
• 2:51 PM: djchuang for Harbor, they wouldn't launch a new site if it jeopardized the critical mass of prev site, and for us, that number was 60..
• 2:54 PM: djchuang refers to doc, Vision for San Diego & Tiajuana.. this is one thing of movement leader(s).. you want to keep repeating the values & vision for what you're up to.. (that doc) has 30-year desired scenario.. and what was needed for that.. 40 congregations with 100 sites, that were Gospel-centered, missional, grace-renewal.....
• 2:55 PM: djchuang sociologists say that if you reach 8% of an area, that will have a very significant impact .. Rodney Stark in Rise of Christianity.. shows it hits a tipping point.. so question was, how many churches would you need to have 560,000 Gospel pace setters functioning 30 years from now.. what was feasible? what would need to happen? alliance sites.. new churches reach new people better than anything..
• 2:56 PM: djchuang so, we also need movement intercessors.. we need people praying in faith.. praying for more laborers.. God has to do this.. even our best shot at it is going to fall short..
• 2:58 PM: djchuang cf. Tim Keller... tipping point #1: when 20 to 30 church planting churches in eco-system.. then movement grows spontaneously.. tipping point #2: when the city is affected.. Dick refers to Vision San Diego..
• 2:59 PM: djchuang Vision San Diego is doing city-wide mercy ministries.. working with government and community leaders.. asked questions: what is your vision for the city? where are your needs? what are 3 obstacles? how can we help?
• 3:00 PM: djchuang in today's culture, we have to let culture ask the questions, as we do mercy ministries.. and to have them ask: Who are you? Why are you doing this?
• 3:02 PM: djchuang Q: how do you communicate to new people coming in at a site, that they're a part of the bigger vision? to get buy-in? A: we'd be happy for people to be happy for the site they're at.. but, unlikely that'd last long.. on bulletin it has all the sites, so right away, people are going to see that there's something different.. about 1/3 of our people find us via web searches..
• 3:02 PM: djchuang when they become a member, then they get to know more about the Harbor story and model.. and at leadership seminar, they hear vision & values, and more in depth...
• 3:03 PM: djchuang the fact that they don't know Dick or Doug are, that doesn't matter..
• 3:04 PM: djchuang watch raw video at tinycast.me/196 , for a couple of minutes of Dick Kaufmann sharing the Harbor story and process
• 3:05 PM: djchuang [Dick closes in prayer, gives thanks for LUNCH.... yup, lunch time for about 1 hour]
• 4:19 PM: djchuang [breakout sessions starting back up.. ]
• 4:20 PM: djchuang Dick Kaufmann draws a triangle diagram with 3 corners for: vision + structure + inter-personal
• 4:21 PM: djchuang that answers questions like: who owns theology? who owns strategy? who owns tactics?
• 4:22 PM: djchuang theology -> session aka elder board; session delegates to ch.planter -> strategy, to flesh out vision & values in their context..
• 4:22 PM: djchuang re: structure - for multi-congregational to work, you have to know where to be centralized, and where to be de-centralized.. (Dick reiterates how this is so important)
• 4:23 PM: djchuang and, to maintain unity, have to be de-centralized in how we use money..
• 4:25 PM: djchuang e.g. each site has a profit/loss column in the shared budget, they have to raise that money, and expenses comes out of that site, and there's a balance at end of year.. to be (self-sustaining) long term..
• 4:26 PM: djchuang session will over-rule if a site budget goes contrary to vision & values.. but, if they're doing something unwise and not inconsistent to vision & values, then session would not correct and only suggest [strongly]...
• 4:28 PM: djchuang to foster inter-personal relationships, unity, teamwork.. Harbor has a monthly church planters' meeting.. in morning, coaching and training, open to pastors from other churches.. then church planters get together, preach thru the same sermon schedule.. share research and ideas with one another.. and, review budgets, calendar of events;
• 4:29 PM: djchuang plus, twice a year, we take a retreat.. for long-term planning.. (1 thing we do) put a map of San Diego on the wall.. put flag of current locations.. and then brainstorm possible new sites..
• 4:30 PM: djchuang illustration: one pastor was wrestling with whether to go to one location or another.. went out with a group of surfers at Ocean Beach.. discovered he didn't know how to surf, put the surfing suit on backwards.. and found his passion and life story, made him perfect for a bridge model in Mid-city..
• 4:32 PM: djchuang retreats are a great bonding time... leadership is the first to confess, repent, and preach the Gospel to ourselves.. amazed at how ch.planters confess their (profound) weaknesses, and then see how God can still use them.. and in a safe environment, we can preach the Gospel to one another..
• 4:34 PM: djchuang re: (3 kinds of) movement equippers.. (1) trainers, addressing what people should know about ch.planting.. (2) coaches help ch.planters in the midst of ch.planting know what to do.. (3) mentors, more of a spiritual director, work a person not on doing or knowing, and more on being.. find areas where they need to be preaching the Gospel in a new way to their heart, dealing with idols, places where they're stuck..
• 4:37 PM: djchuang (a distinction) COACH takes initiative to meet with the person and sets the agenda.. coach would ask question of ch.planter, where are you in the church planting plan..... ch.planter taking initiative and setting agenda with a MENTOR..
• 4:38 PM: djchuang Harbor breaks into groups for just-in time coaching.. for those ch.planters who haven't launched yet, they work together w/ someone seasoned in a breakout group.. and a group for ch.planters in 1st 3 years.. and a group for ch.planters with churches more than 3 years old..
• 4:41 PM: djchuang Harbor is currently using a new approach: a coach will meet 1-on-1 with each ch.planter.. using 1 year church planting plan.. set your quarterly goals - what has to be done next 3 months.. then monthly, check progress.. good accountability.. without a coach you'd have to be very self disciplined..
• 4:44 PM: djchuang [side question] have to real clear about the role of elders in your church.. just b/c they've been elder elsewhere, they may not fit.. translating presbyterian speak: teaching elders (ordained pastors) vs. ruling elders (lay leaders)
• 4:48 PM: djchuang [walked across courtyard, sitting in breakout on asset mapping]
• 4:49 PM: djchuang asset mapping is.. asking 1 person each week.. interviewing them to learn about the community (not an "EE" approach).. before going out, they practiced questioning & interviewing each other.. how do you do it in a winsome way..
• 4:50 PM: djchuang e.g. "Thank you so much for your willingness to meet with me. I really appreciate your time. My hope is to learn more about the Ocean Beach/Point Loma community from your perspective..."
• 4:51 PM: djchuang see document, Internship and Church Planting in a Multi-Congregational Church by Jim Huster at download page
• 4:51 PM: djchuang Sample Questions
  1. Tell me how long you have been a part of the Ocean Beach/Point Loma community?
  2. What have you noticed are the greatest assets here?
• 4:51 PM: djchuang 3. What are the greatest needs of this community? What is going on in this community that breaks your heart about what is not being done?
  4. How is Ocean Beach changing?
• 4:52 PM: djchuang What are your 3 greatest challenges? (and this would become prayer items..) .... 5. Without being too humble, what is your greatest contribution to this community?
• 4:53 PM: djchuang as they did this, they had several a-ha moments.. and as launch team, prayed thru 3 greatest needs.. gave us a direct way to pray for the community.. this exercise built excitement.. coming as learners..
• 4:53 PM: djchuang even going to other churches.. to hear about ministries that were serving the homeless community already..
• 4:55 PM: djchuang after asset mapping, Jim (as church planter) met with launch team each week, take one vision value at a time.. talk about, what does it mean to be Gospel-centered.. missional.. teaching vision and values..
• 4:59 PM: djchuang how to reflect mercy and justice.. we recognized the hill people and beach people (on lower elevation).. these 2 groups didn't cross paths.. we made a strategic move down to .. developed relationships with homeless.. wondered how to have homeless people AND young families come together as a faith community? ... we realized that we needed them more than they need us.. they reflect our true nature & brokenness...
• 5:00 PM: djchuang (Jim Huster): this niche got created in our community, where millionaires and homeless were in community together..
• 5:01 PM: djchuang building towards launch day.. for us, we had critical mass of 60 people... sent out 28,000 postcards to community.. typically, take launch day attendance, and divide that by half, that'll be who you'll have..
• 5:03 PM: djchuang Jim advises: don't throw people at a role or position out of need..
• 5:06 PM: djchuang in 1st year, wanted to do 4 things well: worship, mercy (wanted to reflect mercy in the culture of our worship), children, community (as central to all of these 3).. 1 thing that came out of asset mapping: target was 25-35, young professionals, young families, educated.. 1 of the greatest need -> people were desparate to be connected in community...
• 5:09 PM: djchuang Jim shares his own story.. of how the Gospel changed his life.. could only be where he is because of a team, and how others have given me so many resources..
• 5:13 PM: djchuang question on launch indicators.. hot contact = you know their name and they know your name :)
• 5:16 PM: djchuang Jim has a history of living in a beach community, and loved surfing... discerned where his gifts, passion, and needs of community converged.. [how/ why Jim church-planted in Ocean Beach]
• 5:19 PM: djchuang Question about gathering launch team.. and how did they transition from existing Harbor site to the new site? (led by Jim)... Jim: excitement was to have something in their own community.. found that in San Diego area, Christians will drive 30 miles to church, but a non-Christian won't go a mile and half..
• 5:22 PM: djchuang "I've seen so many bad examples of marriages.. why do I need a ceremony to show my commitment.." that attitude and mindset spills over into church membership...
• 5:23 PM: djchuang Q: what kind of commitment do you expect from launch team? Jim: we were asking them to think about commitment.. for a year.. we needed some stability.. our initial launch team of 20, about 15 were already involved in Harbor.. that was pretty valuable..
• 5:24 PM: djchuang our mindset is to build a great community not a great church... that has huge implications...
• 5:37 PM: djchuang Jim tells story of how he built trust with another church's pastor, b/c Jim held the line.. when someone from that other church wanted to come to Jim's church, Jim said NO, and sent him back to his own church...
• 5:39 PM: djchuang .... as we were starting up.. we looked at who were the people we were able to gather.. and what was their musical preference.. (Jim described how worship music was not his preference)
• 5:39 PM: djchuang ... some people say they're Christian, but they're very moralistic..but over time, we're seeing some start to get the Gospel.. grace renewal..